Comments on: The Election That Keeps on Giving

By: pdberger

pdberger — Sat, 22 Nov 2008 17:10:44 +0000

Simon, not that it’s going to change your mind but I would like to clarify one point.

I think there is a difference between being “proud of” someone and being “proud for” someone.

To be “proud of” my neighbors in this context would, I agree, be patronizing.

But I wrote that I felt “proud for” my neighbors. As in, I felt their pride. And that, I believe, is akin to Cretin’s empathy.

By: Cretin Regnant

Cretin Regnant — Sat, 22 Nov 2008 04:00:32 +0000

Isn’t empathizing sharing the feelings of others? If others feel pride and you empathize with them… wouldn’t you feel, erm, pride?

“…letâ€™s not turn the guy into something he isnâ€™t”

Couldn’t agree more, which is why I’ll ignore your dire view of him.

By: Simon

Simon — Sat, 22 Nov 2008 02:48:07 +0000

Empathise away. I imagine you could feel happy for them. Proud ? Not really the word I would use unless I felt superior to them.

And to answer the question – yes it would be patronising to women to feel proud that some of them had voted for someone of their own sex in an election. Not really an achievement is it ?

Obama isn’t a machine politician ?
ballot challenges ? divorce court leaks ? Rezko ? Do you know any of this stuff?

I think it was a reasonable choice to vote for Obama , but let’s not turn the guy into something he isn’t.

Shame, guilt and condescension. Great mix.

By: Cretin Regnant

Cretin Regnant — Sat, 22 Nov 2008 01:57:47 +0000

So you shouldn’t feel empathy towards adults? Towards different groups of people? And you shouldn’t feel pride for other people? Is he allowed to feel pride for gay people if they get marriage rights or is that too fawning? Would he be allowed to feel pride for women if Hillary had been elected, or would that be patronizing to women? Have you ever tried to imagine what it might be like to be a black person in America? And if you have, how could you possibly have felt anything but pride on election night? How does one become so cynical? “a pure Chicago machine politician ?” Unbelievable.

By: Simon

Simon — Sat, 22 Nov 2008 00:55:56 +0000

Or if he realises that black people are grown ups and there is no need to feel guilty about being a ‘yuppie gentrifier’ in ‘their neighbourhoods’ or proud for them.

By: Cretin Regnant

Cretin Regnant — Fri, 21 Nov 2008 22:59:06 +0000

“You might look back at this in a few years and wince.”

He might. If he turns into a twat.

By: Simon

Simon — Fri, 21 Nov 2008 22:41:42 +0000

I don’t want to be too critical. I think you’re a good writer and I’ve enjoyed a lot of your stuff.

But fuck this is an embarrasing post. A strange mixture of fawning and condescension with overtones of guilt.

To get this excited about the election of a pure Chicago machine politician ? You might look back at this in a few years and wince.

Anyway enjoy your (non-political) stuff.

By: Ali

Ali — Fri, 21 Nov 2008 15:23:02 +0000

Hopefully someday you will also feel proud as a man looking at the 52% women around you – that day when we have a female president!

By: Jenny

Jenny — Thu, 20 Nov 2008 01:50:35 +0000

When we first moved here in 2003 we lived in Harlem and stayed for a few years. Apart of me longed to be back in that apartment on 120th street on Election night to just be a part of history. Or even to have been back in the classroom to have been teaching during this election. But the best thing happened – the morning after the election I started getting all these messages on Facebook from my former students that I taught in 2004 and 2005 – saying that they remembered that I told them to keep an eye on Obama and that I had told them that he could possibly be the first black president.