That’s not really an answer.

From Dictionary.com:

REVENGE
1. To inflict punishment in return for (injury or insult).
2. To seek or take vengeance for (oneself or another person); avenge.

JUSTICE:
1. The quality of being just; fairness.
2.
1. The principle of moral rightness; equity.
2. Conformity to moral rightness in action or attitude; righteousness.
3.
1. The upholding of what is just, especially fair treatment and due reward in accordance with honor, standards, or law.
2. Law. The administration and procedure of law.
4. Conformity to truth, fact, or sound reason: The overcharged customer was angry, and with justice.
5. Abbr. J. Law.
1. A judge.
2. A justice of the peace.

It seems the more civilized a nation, the less tolerant it is of brutes and barbarians, hence capital punishment.

7th if you rank by 100m.

I think that question is loaded because it contains two very large and complex terms but seems to ask for a simple answer. The two terms I refer to are “civilized” and “citizen”. I have no idea what makes a country “civilized” (perhaps a country that executes murderers?). However, I do have an opinion as to when a person should be disenfranchised, i.e., stripped of his/her citizenship. With the blessings of citizenship come obligations and a code of conduct. Some areas of the code of conduct may be murky, difficult to comprehend or just plain wrong; however, our prohibition against murder with aforethought is none of those things. When a person violates that aspect of the code and there is absolutely no doubt as to their guilt they have then shown contempt for civilized (perhaps if pushed I could come up with a definition) society and are properly executed. When a person murders someone else they have shown an unfitness to reside amongst law-abiding citizenry.

Finally, a quick comment w/re: to the variety of other countries that execute prisoners: so what? You are mixing apples and oranges. Those states do not have due process anything like ours. It is common knowledge here that it costs more to execute someone than to simply lock them up (note, I don’t think that monetary concerns should stop us from following our principled instincts). Perhaps we should discuss various EU countries & their alignment with a variety of pristine Middle Eastern countries at the UN. Civilization indeed!

For the record I am not a big fan of the death penalty. See http://www.innocenceproject.org/

Great article in 11/27’s Times by the way. Sorry that this comment is so rushed. I wish I could put more time into it.

Best regards,

B

If someone killed my wife/kid I’d rip their f*($@ng throat out with my bare hands. If someone killed your wife/kid I’d have a think then I’d lock them up for life.

Surely this is the definition of civilsation, using ones rational faculties, not trusting our instincts which evolved in a very different environment to the one we live in now.

Americans should be deeply ashamed that they are collectively murdering their own people. You were right to pose your very loaded question.

I agree. It’s absolutely cruel and uncivilized and so are our prisons. I can’t believe anyone could support the death penalty. Besides being a barbaric act, isn’t the fact that innocents die enough to deter support for the death penalty? America is a bit obsessed with over-the-top punishments- the Rockefeller Laws, Megans Law, etc.

I’d rather see the money saved by illegalizing capital punishment spent on prison family literacy programs, and making prisons much much safer for prisoners to be in. The state of prisons in the U.S. IMO is presently one of our worst human rights violations.

I’m with Dennis on this one.

I agree with Mary’s point that killing another human being is not always wrong in a civilized society although as I’ve already said (and Mary seems to agree) it’s not the duty of the state. But I would like to know where the evidence is that: “Violent crime rates in Europe are rising because of prohibitions against self-defense.”

Me too. I think the problem with comparison is that Europe is a vast place with many states and therefore many laws–20 within the EU alone. I’m not even sure that Europe does have a higher violent crime rate than the US or, if it does, whether the figures are skewed because of definitions of what violent crime is, reporting procedures or an imbalance among the countries themselves.

As for draconian methods of punishment, well I’m sure Europe has its fair share of those too.

At the end of the day, I still think the rights of citizens to be able to defend themselves has incrdibly little, if anything, to do with crime rates…