I am classifed (in this ever-increasing classification world) as straight, with homosexual friends. I’ve got no problem with them, nor they with me. If they want to get legally married I’ll be annoyed, as I suck at shopping for such occasions, but beyond that I’ll have no problem with it except that I won’t be able to attend because it will have to be in a different state than the one in which I reside.

Having said that, I am sick of the faulty reasoning coming from so much of the pro-gay marriage side of the debate (the faulty reasoning coming from the anti-gay marriage side is just as bad, but they’re not the ones who are attempting the inroads, no pun intended).

For instance, some opponents of gay marriage say that gays marrying would make a mockery of the instituion. A poor argument due to its shallowness and casualness of thought, true, but the counter argument should not be that straights have made a mockery of the institution what with Britney Spears, et al. The fact that straights have themselves made a mockery of the institution faults the straights but not the institution. A better response would be to point out the laudable points of the institution and how gays would be able to support those.

Another example, this from the list above just baffles me, shows gays setting up the question just to provide the poor logic in the answer: Children can never succeed without a male and a female role model at home. While a few have no doubt said this, I doubt highly that most opponents of gay marriage believe that children can “never” succeed when raised by gay parents — more are concerned (perhaps erroneously) about the child’s being brought up in a household different from societal norms and how that will affect the child’s outlook and development. I would imagine most gay couples feel the same way, which makes them redouble their efforts to provide a loving home. If we look at it intelligently and honestly, most gay couples (at least the ones I know) do in fact take on “traditional” male and female characteristics and roles in their relationship.

The answer to that question, however, “That’s why we as a society expressly forbid single parents to raise children” is patently ridiculous in that single-parent mothers and fathers ARE ostracized (sp?) financially and otherwise, and their children, statistically, DO often have increased difficulties in outlook and development.

It seems to me that there are no easy answers here, and both the pro- and anti- gay marriage people would do well to realize this and stop pretending that the answer is simple.

I know that some European nations consider marriage a civil union, and the religious part is either allowed or forbidden based on the beliefs of the particular religion involved, if any . . . this seems sensible to me.

I am reminded of a perhaps apocryphal quote from an old British soldier when interviewed regarding the UK making homosexuality legal some years back: “I don’t mind them making it legal as long as they don’t make it mandatory.”

That probably doesn’t help this discussion much, but at least we’re not talking about farming anymore.

I

What IS uphill gardening?

PS – Hamas, Al Quaeda etc ARE the religious right in their countries. They believe in killing foreigners and infidels, hanging or stoning homosexuals.

Whereas the religious right in the UK (such as there is) and US merely want to defend our borders, and think kids shouldn’t be taught about uphill gardening at taxpayer funded schools.

While I may consider some people’s sexual practices to be vile perversions (they’re always the best, I say) and against Christian teaching, that doesn’t mean I want the perpetrators to be crushed to death.

Ostracism is quite sufficient.

Mark and Dennis, thank you for your input.

The comments sections have become a very interesting place of late.

I agree with you about Peter Tatchell’s fairness. He seems like a very honourable chap. His suppport for Harry Hammond’s right to free speech did him a great deal of credit. Plus the Mugabe arrests, I didn’t realise he’d tried twice. Wow.

I don’t agree with his publicly outing people who for whatever reason don’t wish to be outed. That seems like a gross violation of privacy to me. But still…

Dennis,

Sorry if I flew off the handle but frankly I object to your assertions that objections to homosexual rights or whatever come exclusively from the right. The left may spout feel good inclusivness towards gays but I have little doubt this is barely more than lip service which many lefty movers and shakers are ready to drop the moment someone “more deserving” comes along. Witness Ken Livingstone’s buddying up with gay hating Immams.

However even little political battles can be enough to throw out years of retoric.

Take my wife’s uncle for example. It’s a bit personal to be honest but as it’s a matter of public record I’ll press on:
XX is a Health Policy analyst and author. X is a nurse by background and has held appointments including Senior Officer, Royal College of Nursing; Director of Nursing Services, The Royal Marsden Hospital; Director, IHSM; Chief Executive, West Lambeth Community and Mental Health NHS Trust and as a Senior Civil Servant in the NHS Executive, overseeing forensic mental health services. He has also served as a member of a number of DOH task forces under different Secretaries of State.

He’s also, for his sins, been a card carrying member of the Labour party his whole life. Not that it made the slightest bit of difference when they shat on him from a great height.

He was working as Director of Special Hospitals, basically prisons for phsycotic murderers (think Moors Murderers) which are run by the national health service rather than Her Majesty’s Prison Service, and reported directly to the then Conservative Minister of Health. At the time the Conservatives were trying to implement some sort of “internal market” into the health service and this was opposed by the New Labour opposition. My wife’s uncle said on record that he supported the moves. Heresy as far as The Labour Party were concerned. The murky spinmeisters made their move. I dare say those dark artists Alistair Campbell and, ironically, Peter Mandelson were behind digging up and leaking details of my wife’s uncle’s unusual home life to The Daily Mirror. Basically he left his wife to move in with another man. I believe the split was as amicable as these things can get, in fact one of his daughters moved in with him.

So what have we learnt? That the left might trot out the inclusive equality cant, but they are only too happy to eject it the moment it becomes expedient.

And you know what’s really ironic? Labour in government not only wish to have the internal market within the NHS they intend to go further that that, as detailed in this post here.

I’m married and have never homosexual feeling in my entire life. I do have a lot of gay friends and I know them to be very good people. I’m angry that they can’t enjoy some of the same basic rights I have in my hetero marriage.

Straight folks made a mockery of marriage with the high divorce rates in the last few decades.