Surely there is a difference between “feeling threatened because of your religion” and fearing for your life—which is what asylum should be for.

Conservative websites may paint France as a hotbed of anti-Semitism, but I don’t buy it.

I would even hazard a guess that there are other minorities in France, with darker skin, who suffer much worse abuse and have more to fear.

But Petitedov, can you really compare the USSR with France?

In the USSR Jews were not allowed to practice their religion. If they applied for a permit to leave the country they were refused and subsequently lost their jobs and, I believe, sometimes their apartments.

I attended a Seder in the Western Russian city of Pskov in the late 1990s and it was the first Seder they had held for decades. The way of leading the service had been handed down through generations in secret.

Around the same time I traveled to Moscow where I bought anti-Semitic books featuring cartoons of hook-nosed Jews carrying sacks of money from a guy in Red Square.

Even today Jews are not well-liked or trusted in Russia.

Now, compare that with France. Yes, there is a problem with hatred directed towards Jews from a minority in the Muslim community in France. But seeking asylum because of it?

I was brought up and now live in France, and can state that none of the jewish friends or families I know have ever expressed a particular feeling of persecution in France. One friend in particular, an 80 someting year old retired shop owner from Paris, spent his youth in the Dordogne (south west France), first as a refugee, then as an active member of the resistance. He has never expressed anything but love of this place to me, even when talking about those days. Of course, you do occasionaly come across a nutter spouting the usual zionist conspiracy claptrap, but the vast majority view them as lunatics, and rightly so. As for it seeming “that for the most part the French are much more willing to antagonize the Jews than mess with Muslims”, I beg to differ. in the past six years of living here I have not heard one news report of the Jewish community complaining at its treatment by authorities or French society, whereas the repeated and internationally reported Muslim headscarves at school issue (FYI, this law covers all visible religious symbols, so crosses for example are not allowed either) is regularly a cause of friction. The issue of the so-called “Danish caricatures”, which some French press rightly or wrongly insisted on reprinting, costing the editor of Le Monde, hardly an extremist paper, his job, to my mind also shows a refusal to censure in the face of religious dogma. There is still a court case going on at present with the satirical weekly Charlie Hebdo over this issue. I think racism in France is much more of an issue if you’re of north african origin, whatever your religious beliefs, than if you’re Jewish. But I’m not Jewish, or Muslim, or anything for that matter, so maybe I don’t know the whole story.

“Why America, Europe is now big and there are other 24 country to go to…… ”

Good point Ermyas; if these 7,000 people feel their situation in France is so bad, why not move to Britain? They could go today. This reality makes the asylum claim look a bit like a publicity stunt.

Erm, Petitedov, when Aidan said:

“you do occasionaly come across a nutter spouting the usual zionist conspiracy claptrap”

He was talking about nutty Frenchmen spouting racist language. It wasn’t a dig at you.

I just thought I should point that out. I know Aidan, and the chances of him looking at this blog again in the next month are slim to none!

Just to confirm, Petitedov, I was indeed referring to the thoroughly unpleasant individuals I sometimes come across here, and not you in any way (thanx for the backup Paul). Not too sure what you mean about the cartoons though, I wasn’t using them as an example of persecution of muslims. Nor was I defending either the French government’s or individuals’ actions during WWII, merely suggesting that considering his story, this guy was probably better placed than me to make a judgement on the French society of the day. I hasten to add I don’t believe France to be any better than its western neighbours, I just don’t think that its particularly worse either.

Getting one percent of a small, tight-knit community to sign a petition does not sound like a lot to me. (If indeed, 7,000 is one percent.)

And how does the Israeli government know that the 3,000 French Jews who emigrated to Israel did so because they felt persecuted at home?

And define persecution? French Jews are definitely not persecuted by the state.

Inna, are you saying that all Jews who emigrate to Israel do so because of persecution?

If so, why do Jews emigrate to Israel from the USA?

I am not trying to compare France as such to Russia or the USSR. I am sure that, on the whole, France has issues that it can and will work out.

What I am less certain of is whether French Jews feel they are sporadically attacked. I have been following as closely as someone whose French is more than a little rusty can for several years and I have seen reports of police being slow to turn up when the riots are directed against Jews; of denial by the authorities that there were any violence that was directed against Jews; of some pretty horrific stuff in the mainstream press and the like.

None of this makes France any less democratic; it just makes the Jews in France less safe and makes me question whether the attacks on french Jews are, indeed, sporadic.

As for the French Jews immigrating to Israel. According to a BBC story I read (maybe a year or so ago) they say they are doing so for economic reasons. And incidentally, quite a few Jews do indeed immigrate from israel because they don’t feel welcome there. Russian Jews, for example.

This is not to deny that quite a few Jews immigrate from Israel to the US for the same reasons everyone else does: better economic opportunities.

Regards,

Inna

I was in France, but not Paris, when the young Jewish guy was killed. It was a hot issue and the problem as I was able to gather is this.

The rising North African population doesn’t have warm and fuzzy feelings for the Jewish population, the right wing nutters hate everyone who isn’t completely Gallic, and the left wing don’t feel comfortable calling the North African population racist when they are, in fact, being persecuted by the French.

Regardless, the French Jews have options. They have EU passports and automatic Israeli citizenship. I think PD is right in saying that their asylum claims are a slap in the face of people who are facing immediate risk to their lives, situations where if they aren’t accepted into the us, not only do they have nowhere else to go, but they will be killed if they go home.

Feeling unsafe is not the same as being unsafe, and statistically French Jews are safer in France then they are in the US. Not because they’d be targets in the US but because this is a statistically more violent country.

I know the politically correct thing to say is you can’t compare sufferings, but that’s BS. I’ve seen too much real abject poverty and suffering to have much pity for these guys.

Inna,

You misconstrued me, I’m not saying that they should leave, I’m simply saying that they can leave – something many asylum petitioners, and refugees have problems doing. I have no problems with them leaving, even yes, for the US if they were simply trying to immigrate. My problem is that they’re trying to claim asylum.

>Perhaps. We’re also a more vibrant and more open country. We’re a place where there is virtually no hierarchy in daily life; where everyone strives for perfection; where activity is non-stop and where (if you’re willing to aim for the proverbial sky) you will be made welcome no matter your background–and that, I think is why they signed the petition in the first place.

Speaking as a black woman, and the daughter of immigrants, I think that you look at this country through rose colored glasses. I’m not saying the US doesn’t have it’s positives, but it has it’s negatives. And you’re basically saying because the US has more positives than negatives (in your opinion) that the French Jews should have the opportunity to live here, instead of working out their problems on their own terrain.

Perhaps, one of the problems, is that they (the petition signers) see themselves as being apart from larger French society, instead of being a part of French society.

Siobhan: There is more Muslim in France than in the UK. Secondly whether you are Muslim, Christian Jew, Buddhist there is total respect for fellow citizens in the UK than any other country in the world, the law protects you people are respectful towards your religion in the UK. So I say welcome to the UK.

The only people that are marginalized due to terrorism are the Muslims.

The only idiocy and insults I see are from you that say that these things are idiocy and insults. Have you been to France lately? Clearly not. It’s not one Jewish kidnap and murder, it’s a weekly occurance of rape, violent attacks and hate crimes against Jews. The Jewish communities of France do live in Fear. Marseille has been taken over by North African Arabs. You do not dare to carry anything with Jewish or Israeli packaging or logos, wear a Jewish star, a kippa, or even carry a book with Hebrew text on the front. When you go to the kosher stores, you immediately rebag your products into other stores’ bags. So what if the country claims to be a democracy. A democracy doesn’t mean the government doesn’t turn a blind eye to attacks against the Jews and a democracy doesn’t mean that the French government is reigning in it’s violent and increasingly anti-Semitic “new” moslem “citizens.” The French government and police are doing nothing to solve the problem. They cower in fear over the arab moslem population. How many cars have been burned just from those “youths” rioting. They weren’t white French youths. They were arab moslem youths. They can’t even control their own citizens. How dare you judge levels of what is appropriate for a human to suffer before they are deserving of asylum. French Jews are moving here and to Canada in greater numbers than ever before! Canada is happy to have them as they usually have a better education, don’t rely on the state for welfare, and are surely more upstanding than the third world moslems who live off state welfare and do not speak English or French. ANd ENgland? England is as big of a joke as France is. It has almost overnight become Londinistan and it’s just getting worse. French Jews who can afford are buying businesses in North America for instant business visas. It’s the 1930s all over again in France. You don’t dare to go on the subway or in the shopping centers past 7 pm there. In fact, in south of France most shops and malls are now closing at 7 because it is too dangerous for non-Muslims to be out unprotected. Even scarier is the number of moslem police that Marseille has hired. Six months ago at the train station a fight broke out where the moslem police started assaulting people (non-moslems). Remember, Marseille has a huge Jewish population made up largely of Jews who were kicked forcefully out of Arab lands, esp. Algeria. Now these same moslem Algerians have followed them to France. Who will protect them? How long will you make them wait this time?

And there are 50+ countries with a moslem majority. We cannot take in every single asylum seeker and refuge. Yet, the US takes in asylum seekers for various reasons millions of them, for instance, from Laos and SAsia, for FEAR OF COMMUNISM! Where are your postings about the idiocy of taking in millions for fear of communism? http://www.numbersusa.com/interests/ordeal.html

We already give refugee status to Nicaragua and Haitians.. Indochines, Salvadorians, Guatamalens, Cubans, etc.
You’re telling me that the hardship of being South American is worse than what has happened and continues to happen to the Jews? We allow asylum for political dissidents. Yet this is worse than what has happened and continues to happen to the Jews?