You seem to have a Hunter S Thompson approach to this political debate in the sense that you are very often 3 sheets to the wind as you wax forth!

This is an approach I condone completely.

rgds
Beau

Ok, I’m done here. You win. You’re right about everything. The stuff taken out of context to match your views, the accusations of lying despite overtly verifiable assertions to the contrary, and your masterful sarcasm that is not in the least condescending or snide.

Congratulations. I’ll see you in the polling booth come November.

Obama wrote a glowing review of Ayers’ book. Do you do that for acquaintances or people whom you have a common ideological bond with? Ayers sat on the board with Obama in two different instances, and even helped hire Obama to distribute millions of dollars to a completely ineffective education program that is now used as an example of how not to reform education. And maybe most importantly, Obama launched his political career in the living room of this man. Just acquaintances?

Stop trying to fool everyone into thinking these relationships mean nothing. They were more than casual acquaintance and furthermore Obama lied to everyone about when he met Ayers and whether he even knew about his past. Why would Obama lie repeatedly about Ayers if there was no important significance to their relationship??

And what is this special meaning that you attach to being a “former” terrorist? The man is an unrepentant terrorist who on 9/11 bragged to the New York Times that he was sorry he had not done more! The man never served time and to this day says he would do it all over again. There is no such thing as a former terrorist. Is there such a thing as a former rapist? Being an apologist for Obama is bad enough, but now you’re going to become an apologist for Ayers?

– I was pointing out that their gaffes are actually important indications of the type of leaders they would make, whereas scratching one’s face and listening to rap music are not.

So Sara Palin’s and John McCain’s gaffes are indications of their future leadership tendencies, but Obama’s working ties to radical terrorists are beyond reproach and have no substantive relevance to how he might chose his cabinet, or his personal ideological bearings in terms of how he sees this country?

– “He’s palling around with terrorists who would target their own country.”

He did pal around with terrorists. He dishonestly referred to Ayers as just someone in his neighborhood. He goes to a farewell dinner for Rashid Khalidi, who worked for the PLO at the time it was classified by the US Government as terrorist organization, and who is a man who to this day is a proponent of suicide bombings. Who else was at this farewell dinner? Why none other than Bill Ayers. Just a big coincidence right?

–She also said, “This is not a man who sees America as you see America and as I see America.”

Is John McCain a man who sees America the way you see America? Oh he’s not? Should we therefore question your patriotism? Of course not. There is nothing wrong with pointing this out.

– And, of course, you just did the same, with your “people like you” comment. Once again, I am attempting to argue individual points while you are attempting to make the discussion personal, attacking ME and not merely responding on the points of discussion. If you did so, I’d be far more likely to take you seriously.

You made yourself the subject of this with your ridiculous accusations. I have challenged you in other threads many times after your scurrilous charges and you have left those challenges unanswered. You are not attempting to argue individual points. You are repeatedly trying to change the subject, obfuscate and deny reality. And that is in between accusing whole portions of the conservative party of being bigots.

The rhetoric coming from Cretin and yourself optimizes of the problem with the national discourse. You have devalued the meaning of racism by repeatedly slandering those who dare disagree with your preferred candidate.

You’re further mistaken if you ever thought I came here to change your point of view. Your rhetoric is a reflection of the poor rationale for Obama’s candidacy. You’re doing just fine there buddy, you make a great case for Obama

I was not using a logical fallacy. You brought up the comparison between the two:

” notice Michael that you sure do some crazy gymnastics to excuse the completely unpresidential behavior of Obama, while jumping on just about every gaffe McCain or Palin makes while “under the scrutiny of the camera”.

And I was pointing out that their gaffes are actually important indications of the type of leaders they would make, whereas scratching one’s face and listening to rap music are not.

Furthermore, continuing to run ads implying a close relationship with a FORMER terrorist when there IS NO EVIDENCE OF A ANYTHING OTHER THAN ACQUANTAINCE:

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/he_lied_about_bill_ayers.html

IS fomenting the kind of behavior and willfull ignorance displayed by much, much more than one person in many news stories, videos and personal accounts.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/10/10/MN3A13EVIL.DTL&feed=rss.news

And, no, McCain does NOT go out of his way to avoid people like this. He chose one as his vice president:

“He’s palling around with terrorists who would target their own country.” She also said, “This is not a man who sees America as you see America and as I see America.”

She has him palling around with multiple CURRENT terrorists and talks about how “different” he is.

And, of course, you just did the same, with your “people like you” comment. Once again, I am attempting to argue individual points while you are attempting to make the discussion personal, attacking ME and not merely responding on the points of discussion. If you did so, I’d be far more likely to take you seriously.

You then argue a logical fallacy to defend Obama’s behavior. McCain’s behavior surely should be examined in detail, but to offer examples his inappropriate comments as a defense for Obama is the height of intellectual dishonesty. You either denounce Obama’s behavior or you condone it.

As for McCain since you brought it up, I find the jokes about Iran to be in bad taste and bad judgement. Frankly if I didn’t already have hundreds of other examples of McCain’s judgement on issues of such a serious nature, I would seriously question whether he has the maturity or temperament to be president.

Fortunately I know that he takes the issue of war quite seriously, having opposed the military operation in Somalia that led to the horrific deaths of our Marines, an operation that was poorly executed by president Clinton, whom I admire for other traits and accomplishments. I do not excuse McCain’s comments, but they are on their own not enough to move my vote to Obama.

You then go on a rant about how McCain is fomenting racism? Please, give us a break. You’ll explain away relationships between Obama and Ayers as lacking significance, but suddenly a total stranger who shows up at a McCain rally should be considered with such weight as if he/she was the 3rd candidate on the ticket?

McCain goes out of his way to avoid people like this, because people like you lack the intellectual honesty to see them for the totally fringe and irrelevant people that they are. Shall we start a discussion about the fringe lunatics on the Obama side of this election? Somehow I don’t think you’ll want to open up that can of worms.

P.S. Next time just quote Orwell directly, there’s no need to do it by way of Andrew Sullivan. Is that where you first learned of Orwell? LOL.