Englishman in New York10 Oct 2008 11:30 pm

Calming the Troops

Poor old John McCain. Now he’s having to stick up for Obama.

(Via Alex Massie)

21 Responses to “Calming the Troops”

  1. on 11 Oct 2008 at 12:12 am   Cretin Regnant

    This is great. Let’s just hope it doesn’t get him elected.

  2. on 11 Oct 2008 at 1:13 am   Ali

    Well, I think it was quite classy that ole’ McCain didn’t give Obama the finger.

  3. on 11 Oct 2008 at 9:12 am   Cretin Regnant

    I don’t follow?

  4. on 11 Oct 2008 at 10:36 am   Ali

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTJs0VRJLO8

    I was just reminiscing about the good old days.

  5. on 11 Oct 2008 at 11:44 am   Cretin Regnant

    Oh please? Is this the kind of thing the Hillary fanatics used to foam at the mouth over? You really are a wacky bunch.

    Why do you support McCain? I have yet to hear a good reason for this. Which policies of McCain’s do you prefer to Obama’s? Or do policies not matter to you?

  6. on 11 Oct 2008 at 12:43 pm   pacific_waters

    It’s rather foolish to discuss a candidates specific policy proposals before someone is elected. Congress does have a say in things or had you forgotten that? Specific policy points made before an election will often be laid aside as the reality of a situation is revealed. McCain is a poor choice but I support him because obama is an even worse choice who will weaken us economically and militarily.

  7. on 11 Oct 2008 at 2:43 pm   Ali

    Who is foaming at the mouth? I think giving the finger to a rival for the presidential nominee is pretty much an ass thing to do, but I’m not foaming over it. And it’s such a cliche to paint former Hillary supporters in that light. I don’t think Hillary supporters are more foam generating than Obama or McCain supporters, do you? Perhaps you have been reading too much Andrew Sullivan.

    Policy wise….

    I’m a pretty centrist democrat by nature, a la Bill Clinton. Obama is more to the left than I am. McCain is more to the right. So some things I prefer Obama, policy wise. Somethings I prefer McCain. But here is what I like about McCain.

    I like McCain work with immigration. I like that he crossed his partyline and worked with Democrats.

    I like his tax plan better than Obama’s although it is more conservative than is my nature. Yeah, the capital gains tax means something to me. I don’t like Obama’s punitive vibe regarding taxes - Raising capital gains taxes because it’s “fair” even though it generates less tax revenue. Makes no sense and has a philosophical bend to it that I don’t relate with. I don’t like Obama’s plan to raise social security “taxes” for those families who earn over 100k. And I don’t like Obama’s voting record with taxes - to raise taxes on individuals earning over 40something k. That really sucks. I also don’t think his idealogy takes into account the varrying demographics in the United States. Some states/ cities are far more expensive to live in than others. 100k is far more in Mississipi than New York.

    In regard to the housing/ banking crisis. A democrat since I turned 18, I do not idealize the democrats. The dems and Nancy Pelosi are really pissing me off. Here we see that dems have not shown accountability over their actions - past or present. McCain - I like that McCain spoke critically of Fanny years ago.

    I like McCain’s idea for the league of democracies and his latest bailout plan. And I trust his record FAR more - I like his history of pissing off his own party and working with democrats. I’ve had to convince some republican family members to vote for him. He is too to the left for them. And this is something that I liked about Bill Clinton, that he crossed party lines to work with Republicans.

    Please, again, enlighten me about Obama. What are his accomplishments with helping the poor and middle class? Yeah, experience does mean something to me. I guess it means something to Obama supporters also, since they are in a tissy over Sarah Palin.

    And Michael, please don’t ask me for a definition again or suggest that I look something up in the dictionary. It’s really condescending!

  8. on 11 Oct 2008 at 3:53 pm   Michael

    Ali, I wasn’t even going to post anything here. Beginning to think it’s all been said. I AM glad to hear your views on the candidate you’re voting on, and I sincerely apologize if I was taken as being condescending in that earlier thread; I suppose I was reacting because I felt that you were being condescending to me at the time for accusing me of mindlessly following someone.

    I don’t, however, think Obama was flipping someone off. There’s no proof he wasn’t, but on the other hand, there’s no proof he was. I think he was just scratching his face, because he’s not the type to flip someone off for no reason on camera. Yet another reason why it must be hard to live your life under the scrutiny of the camera. Glad I don’t have someone critiquing every finger choice and scratch *I* make when I’m in public.

  9. on 11 Oct 2008 at 4:21 pm   Cretin Regnant

    ahh, gods, another one? pacific_waters indeed. who are you people? it’s foolish to discuss policy proposals in case they can’t get them through? i may as well vote for a nazi or something then eh? he’ll never get that shit to stick and it’ll be fun pissing people off.

    Ali, you are too much.

  10. on 11 Oct 2008 at 5:49 pm   CJ

    Michael:

    “I don’t, however, think Obama was flipping someone off. There’s no proof he wasn’t, but on the other hand, there’s no proof he was. I think he was just scratching his face, because he’s not the type to flip someone off for no reason on camera.”

    Yeah you’re right. Afterall a guy who walks into an victory party to the tune of JayZ’s ‘99 Problems (And a bitch ain’t one of them)’ would never flip someone off for no reasons. I mean, that kind of song just shows so much class and respect towards woman, who could imagine that he would actually flip someone off?

    http://www.nypost.com/seven/01142008/gossip/pagesix/hillary__barack_rap__rock_142152.htm

    And it’s not like Obama has a history of speaking with condescension towards women:

    http://www.usnews.com/blogs/erbe/2008/4/4/obamas-sweetie-problem.html

    “Glad I don’t have someone critiquing every finger choice and scratch *I* make when I’m in public.”

    I notice Michael that you sure do some crazy gymnastics to excuse the completely unpresidential behavior of Obama, while jumping on just about every gaffe McCain or Palin makes while “under the scrutiny of the camera”.

    Have you ever considered stepping back and looking at the hypocrisy in your comments on this site?

  11. on 11 Oct 2008 at 6:39 pm   Michael

    I’ll use the same quote: “There’s no proof he wasn’t, but on the other hand, there’s no proof he was. I think he was just scratching his face, because he’s not the type to flip someone off for no reason on camera.”

    I expressed that nobody can know for sure, then I expressed an opinion that differs from yours, CJ. Why that constitutes mental gymnastics and infuriates you so, I have no idea.

    At the risk of thoroughly ruining your day, however, might I suggest that scratching one’s face, using the term “sweetie”, and listening to rap music of which I am not personally fond are not equal to jokes about bombing Iran, fomenting cries of “terrorist” and “kill him” from your supporters, and then turns criticism of such behavior as somehow “out of touch:

    http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/10/10/1529529.aspx

    But again, this will only upset you, C.J., so perhaps I will not read the comments section of this site for a while. You need the rest. I only hope everyone agrees with you forever. To quote Andrew Sullivan quoting George Orwell:

    “As nearly as possible, no nationalist ever thinks, talks, or writes about anything except the superiority of his own power unit. It is difficult if not impossible for any nationalist to conceal his allegiance. The smallest slur upon his own unit, or any implied praise of a rival organization, fills him with uneasiness which he can relieve only by making some sharp retort,” - George Orwell.

  12. on 11 Oct 2008 at 7:43 pm   Cretin Regnant

    Still waiting CJ. Dum dee dum dum dum, still waiting.

  13. on 11 Oct 2008 at 7:45 pm   CJ

    What are you waiting for Cretin?

  14. on 11 Oct 2008 at 8:46 pm   CJ

    Michael, either you presume to have some incredible mind reading powers, or you hope that by asserting that you’re under my skin that others will just take it at face value and ignore the fact that nearly every time you try to debate on merit you lose.

    You then argue a logical fallacy to defend Obama’s behavior. McCain’s behavior surely should be examined in detail, but to offer examples his inappropriate comments as a defense for Obama is the height of intellectual dishonesty. You either denounce Obama’s behavior or you condone it.

    As for McCain since you brought it up, I find the jokes about Iran to be in bad taste and bad judgement. Frankly if I didn’t already have hundreds of other examples of McCain’s judgement on issues of such a serious nature, I would seriously question whether he has the maturity or temperament to be president.

    Fortunately I know that he takes the issue of war quite seriously, having opposed the military operation in Somalia that led to the horrific deaths of our Marines, an operation that was poorly executed by president Clinton, whom I admire for other traits and accomplishments. I do not excuse McCain’s comments, but they are on their own not enough to move my vote to Obama.

    You then go on a rant about how McCain is fomenting racism? Please, give us a break. You’ll explain away relationships between Obama and Ayers as lacking significance, but suddenly a total stranger who shows up at a McCain rally should be considered with such weight as if he/she was the 3rd candidate on the ticket?

    McCain goes out of his way to avoid people like this, because people like you lack the intellectual honesty to see them for the totally fringe and irrelevant people that they are. Shall we start a discussion about the fringe lunatics on the Obama side of this election? Somehow I don’t think you’ll want to open up that can of worms.

    P.S. Next time just quote Orwell directly, there’s no need to do it by way of Andrew Sullivan. Is that where you first learned of Orwell? LOL.

  15. on 11 Oct 2008 at 10:19 pm   Michael

    I’ve been reading Orwell since I was 12. I merely referred to Andrew Sullivan because he ran the quote today.

    I was not using a logical fallacy. You brought up the comparison between the two:

    ” notice Michael that you sure do some crazy gymnastics to excuse the completely unpresidential behavior of Obama, while jumping on just about every gaffe McCain or Palin makes while “under the scrutiny of the camera”.

    And I was pointing out that their gaffes are actually important indications of the type of leaders they would make, whereas scratching one’s face and listening to rap music are not.

    Furthermore, continuing to run ads implying a close relationship with a FORMER terrorist when there IS NO EVIDENCE OF A ANYTHING OTHER THAN ACQUANTAINCE:

    http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/he_lied_about_bill_ayers.html

    IS fomenting the kind of behavior and willfull ignorance displayed by much, much more than one person in many news stories, videos and personal accounts.

    http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/10/10/MN3A13EVIL.DTL&feed=rss.news

    And, no, McCain does NOT go out of his way to avoid people like this. He chose one as his vice president:

    “He’s palling around with terrorists who would target their own country.” She also said, “This is not a man who sees America as you see America and as I see America.”

    She has him palling around with multiple CURRENT terrorists and talks about how “different” he is.

    And, of course, you just did the same, with your “people like you” comment. Once again, I am attempting to argue individual points while you are attempting to make the discussion personal, attacking ME and not merely responding on the points of discussion. If you did so, I’d be far more likely to take you seriously.

  16. on 11 Oct 2008 at 11:48 pm   CJ

    – Furthermore, continuing to run ads implying a close relationship with a FORMER terrorist when there IS NO EVIDENCE OF ANYTHING OTHER THAN ACQUANTAINCE:

    Obama wrote a glowing review of Ayers’ book. Do you do that for acquaintances or people whom you have a common ideological bond with? Ayers sat on the board with Obama in two different instances, and even helped hire Obama to distribute millions of dollars to a completely ineffective education program that is now used as an example of how not to reform education. And maybe most importantly, Obama launched his political career in the living room of this man. Just acquaintances?

    Stop trying to fool everyone into thinking these relationships mean nothing. They were more than casual acquaintance and furthermore Obama lied to everyone about when he met Ayers and whether he even knew about his past. Why would Obama lie repeatedly about Ayers if there was no important significance to their relationship??

    And what is this special meaning that you attach to being a “former” terrorist? The man is an unrepentant terrorist who on 9/11 bragged to the New York Times that he was sorry he had not done more! The man never served time and to this day says he would do it all over again. There is no such thing as a former terrorist. Is there such a thing as a former rapist? Being an apologist for Obama is bad enough, but now you’re going to become an apologist for Ayers?

    – I was pointing out that their gaffes are actually important indications of the type of leaders they would make, whereas scratching one’s face and listening to rap music are not.

    So Sara Palin’s and John McCain’s gaffes are indications of their future leadership tendencies, but Obama’s working ties to radical terrorists are beyond reproach and have no substantive relevance to how he might chose his cabinet, or his personal ideological bearings in terms of how he sees this country?

    – “He’s palling around with terrorists who would target their own country.”

    He did pal around with terrorists. He dishonestly referred to Ayers as just someone in his neighborhood. He goes to a farewell dinner for Rashid Khalidi, who worked for the PLO at the time it was classified by the US Government as terrorist organization, and who is a man who to this day is a proponent of suicide bombings. Who else was at this farewell dinner? Why none other than Bill Ayers. Just a big coincidence right?

    –She also said, “This is not a man who sees America as you see America and as I see America.”

    Is John McCain a man who sees America the way you see America? Oh he’s not? Should we therefore question your patriotism? Of course not. There is nothing wrong with pointing this out.

    – And, of course, you just did the same, with your “people like you” comment. Once again, I am attempting to argue individual points while you are attempting to make the discussion personal, attacking ME and not merely responding on the points of discussion. If you did so, I’d be far more likely to take you seriously.

    You made yourself the subject of this with your ridiculous accusations. I have challenged you in other threads many times after your scurrilous charges and you have left those challenges unanswered. You are not attempting to argue individual points. You are repeatedly trying to change the subject, obfuscate and deny reality. And that is in between accusing whole portions of the conservative party of being bigots.

    The rhetoric coming from Cretin and yourself optimizes of the problem with the national discourse. You have devalued the meaning of racism by repeatedly slandering those who dare disagree with your preferred candidate.

    You’re further mistaken if you ever thought I came here to change your point of view. Your rhetoric is a reflection of the poor rationale for Obama’s candidacy. You’re doing just fine there buddy, you make a great case for Obama ;)

  17. on 12 Oct 2008 at 12:30 am   Michael

    ?????

    Ok, I’m done here. You win. You’re right about everything. The stuff taken out of context to match your views, the accusations of lying despite overtly verifiable assertions to the contrary, and your masterful sarcasm that is not in the least condescending or snide.

    Congratulations. I’ll see you in the polling booth come November.

  18. on 12 Oct 2008 at 1:21 am   Cretin Regnant

    CJ, are you a robot? I’ve been trying to figure out the consciousness behind the posts and my best guess is that you are a computer program. Very efficient, but not cognizant of your own utterings.

  19. on 12 Oct 2008 at 9:06 am   Cretin Regnant

    Ooops, sorry, I was two sheets to the breeze or something when I wrote this last night.

  20. on 12 Oct 2008 at 9:52 pm   Ermiyas

    Advance apology for my bad language.
    Common sense prevailed.
    I specifically blame ******* Hannity, Fox TV and all right winger m****r f*****s for all this ignorant people reaction.

  21. on 13 Oct 2008 at 9:24 am   Beau

    Hi Cretin,

    You seem to have a Hunter S Thompson approach to this political debate in the sense that you are very often 3 sheets to the wind as you wax forth!

    This is an approach I condone completely.

    rgds
    Beau

Feed on comments to this Post

Leave a Reply